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-----Original Message-----
From: Michael LaMeyer [mailto:m.lameyer@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:02 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: Is it "Live" or "Memorex"aha!! it's the annual "are DJ's really muscians" thread!personally, i've always really liked mustard, and never understood how anyone could like ketcup ...mike-----Original Message-----In a message dated 7/10/2002 11:39:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ssrndpty@hotmail.com writes:
From: AKASHMUSIC@aol.com [mailto:AKASHMUSIC@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:56 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Is it "Live" or "Memorex"
but it's not music.
It's music apreciation.
you gotta be kiddin here when u say that right?
they ( DJ's) may not be traditional musicians as that they are perhaps as you say "playing with music" & especially doing just that in the more operative sense in the context that you mention here - such as BPM matching, etc.
But DJ Spooky doesnt just "play with Music" and as someone else also mentionedThe ORB who didnt just "play with music" as same can be said of DJ Shadow.
Alll the afortementioned DJ's made very clear and distinct music IMHO and were musicians as much as Yoyo Ma is a muscian and still could be considered musical regrdless as to whther there is a backing track present or not IMHO and still be able to obtain a certain type of virtuosity as a possibilty for them as much as any other traditional musician can do the same
But The experience of music is not just focused or dependent upon what is happeing on the stage and doesnt have to be based upon the process of actions a performer takes visually or physically as much as it is perhaps more in the intentions and the connection with the audience and the quality of that connection.. and also there within where it goes or how it is dispersed.
that seems to be the way you can observe what is happening without "you" getting in the way of the music's story IMHO.
Its also sorta kinda like the difference between the person who goes to the Buddha King All u can eat - Chinese Buffet who combines pre-cooked foods to make a new dish and say contrast that against a person who goes out to Philadelphia's Le Bec Fin - ( 12 star dining and Tres expensive and cooked by some of the world's best and highly trained chef's who have spent years and years studuying the culinary arts and can apprach cooking from many angles - experiemntal-classical, and in between ).
But what you guys are saying is like sorta sayin that the food at Buddha King isnt even food ( though there are arguments you could make to that effect concerning all u can eat buffets as that it will surely kill you over time if you eat the more unhealthy dishes they have there and if especially so, you were to eat those unhealthy dishes in large portions it could give you a stomach ache:)
But you cant say it isnt "food" they are eating @ Buddha king just as much as you can not say that the experince a customer has cant be blissful or enjoyable becasue they didnt cook the food themselves or perhaps that it came from cans and all that was done for the foods preparation was that it was put on a plate for them or made by someone else in a microwave....and who's to say they arent using microwave foods @ Lebec Fin?
I think folks are expressing outrage at people whom they see as going to a Buffet who are in turn claiming to have cooked a 12 star meal and conferring upon themselves the status of chef...who cares & why not?
But from my mind food is food - be it cooked or uncooked.
"cooking" is just passing food along to another state as that combinations and and re-combinations happen all along the way and back again as nothing or no enegery is ever lost -only converted.
and the musical chain of events is never one that is fixed or etched in stone no matter where you or how you would choose to look at it or place yourself as a musician.
aint no new notes as miles once said and its all been done before even before you begin it - but you can have an original perspective to bring to bear toward all of that which has already been.
I also think how we perceive music most times says more about "us" than any music we listen to or play as musicians most times.
I'm also gonna do some flip flopping here as that i am on record in some places in print saying the sorta things that most of the posters regarding this subject have already said concerning canned music- sucking.
in recent days I have come to regret those dismissive comments I made concerning DJ's & BPM matchers etc as not being true musicians...i think i was way wrong and off the mark and regret having made those statements
but hopefully we dont start asking - what is music?
That "age old question" is more or less the most obvious - "idiots-slippery slope" IMHO-where the time and energy invested in its self-affirming - defining- dialog detracts from any sort of music you could ever claim to like, hate, love, want or even reject at that matter.
& I could care less ( as most audiences feel the same way these days as they too could care less ) if someone is actually playing or fervently working and tweaking knobs or pushing some so called "boundary" that either i want and or need to have affirmed for me to have a "significantly" & valid "musical" experience.
My own personal experiences are valid without needing to cross check them against my own database or anyone eles set of expectations and inferences I would & or could make & perhaps may have been given or learned to apply against all music(s)..
It seems like with all those expectations.of validity where one would end up looking and feeling and demanding the knowldge that something is a certain or particular way, says that in any case you would again really only be there listening for and looking for affirmation of - self - regardless as to any context, genre or message/story the music may or may not have to reveal to you.
This dialog makes me think of Something that Weasel Walter from the legendary Experimental-NoiseAvant Free Jazz-Rock troupe The Flying Luttenbacher's ( http://mp3.com/flying_luttenbachers ) is quoted as saying which makes reference to the AEN band COCK ESP ( http://mp3.com/cockesp )... the quote goes somethin like this ( as i am paraphrasing ) :
" Music Sucks & COCK ESP doesnt suck - cuz they dont play "music" and wont ever be concerned or preoccupied with music".
Only now am I seein' what the wisdom & beauty is in that sentiment as the irony is that COCK ESP does really "play music" despite their aversion to anything to do with "music" and those who demand their performances and listening experience be "musical".
They ( COCK ESP ) just are not concerned with having to be anything other than what the music asks them to be and thats pretty much all you can ever hope for IMHO.
and i think thats all I happen to ever actively observe look for in any performance context be it 3 feet away from the performer or when listening in my bedrooom or on my car stereo.
But this "is it live or memorex" talk also reminds me that I've always & still do really wanna play a show where I just show up and sit on a well adorned stage done up to be like a very ornate and plush 1950's living room - where i am on a couch with a remote control flicking thru all my "john price tunes" while they are on random play where all the while I'm on the couch surrounded by gorgeous women sipping the working man's champagne Pabst. Blue Ribbon - watchinmg the audience watch themselves and me and...vice versa on video screens. all over the venue.
i think the pet shop boys,.erasure or kraftwerk all may have done something quite similar to that effect...I'm rambling again ...
guess i need to go & do it but i think it would be fun and 100% musical in the process :).
"Remember To Always Kill Your Expectations"
JP/AKASH
"The World's Most Erotic Band"
http://www.akashmusic.com
http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic