aha!!
it's the annual "are DJ's really muscians" thread!personally,
i've always really liked mustard, and never understood how anyone could
like ketcup ...mike
In a message dated 7/10/2002 11:39:47
AM Pacific Daylight Time, ssrndpty@hotmail.com writes:
but
it's not music.
It's music apreciation.
you gotta be
kiddin here when u say that right?
they ( DJ's)
may not be traditional musicians as that they are perhaps as you say "playing
with music" & especially doing just that in the more operative sense
in the context that you mention here - such as BPM matching, etc.
But DJ Spooky
doesnt just "play with Music" and as someone else also mentionedThe ORB
who didnt just "play with music" as same can be said of DJ Shadow.
Alll the afortementioned
DJ's made very clear and distinct music IMHO and were musicians as much
as Yoyo Ma is a muscian and still could be considered musical regrdless
as to whther there is a backing track present or not IMHO and still be
able to obtain a certain type of virtuosity as a possibilty for them as
much as any other traditional musician can do the same
But The experience
of music is not just focused or dependent upon what is happeing on the
stage and doesnt have to be based upon the process of actions a performer
takes visually or physically as much as it is perhaps more in the intentions
and the connection with the audience and the quality of that connection..
and also there within where it goes or how it is dispersed.
that seems to
be the way you can observe what is happening without "you" getting in the
way of the music's story IMHO.
Its also sorta
kinda like the difference between the person who goes to the Buddha King
All u can eat - Chinese Buffet who combines pre-cooked foods to make a
new dish and say contrast that against a person who goes out to Philadelphia's
Le Bec Fin - ( 12 star dining and Tres expensive and cooked by some of
the world's best and highly trained chef's who have spent years and years
studuying the culinary arts and can apprach cooking from many angles -
experiemntal-classical, and in between ).
But what you
guys are saying is like sorta sayin that the food at Buddha King isnt even
food ( though there are arguments you could make to that effect concerning
all u can eat buffets as that it will surely kill you over time if you
eat the more unhealthy dishes they have there and if especially so,
you were to eat those unhealthy dishes in large portions it could give
you a stomach ache:)
But you cant
say it isnt "food" they are eating @ Buddha king just as much as
you can not say that the experince a customer has cant be blissful or enjoyable
becasue they didnt cook the food themselves or perhaps that it came from
cans and all that was done for the foods preparation was that it was put
on a plate for them or made by someone else in a microwave....and who's
to say they arent using microwave foods @ Lebec Fin?
I think folks
are expressing outrage at people whom they see as going to a Buffet who
are in turn claiming to have cooked a 12 star meal and conferring upon
themselves the status of chef...who cares & why not?
But from my mind
food is food - be it cooked or uncooked.
"cooking" is
just passing food along to another state as that combinations and and re-combinations
happen all along the way and back again as nothing or no enegery is ever
lost -only converted.
and the musical
chain of events is never one that is fixed or etched in stone no matter
where you or how you would choose to look at it or place yourself as a
musician.
aint no new notes
as miles once said and its all been done before even before you begin it
- but you can have an original perspective to bring to bear toward all
of that which has already been.
I also think
how we perceive music most times says more about "us" than any music we
listen to or play as musicians most times.
I'm also gonna
do some flip flopping here as that i am on record in some places in print
saying the sorta things that most of the posters regarding this subject
have already said concerning canned music- sucking.
in recent days
I have come to regret those dismissive comments I made concerning DJ's
& BPM matchers etc as not being true musicians...i think i was way
wrong and off the mark and regret having made those statements
but hopefully
we dont start asking - what is music?
That "age old
question" is more or less the most obvious - "idiots-slippery slope"
IMHO-where the time and energy invested in its self-affirming - defining-
dialog detracts from any sort of music you could ever claim to like, hate,
love, want or even reject at that matter.
& I could
care less ( as most audiences feel the same way these days as they too
could care less ) if someone is actually playing or fervently working and
tweaking knobs or pushing some so called "boundary" that either i want
and or need to have affirmed for me to have a "significantly" &
valid "musical" experience.
My own personal
experiences are valid without needing to cross check them against my own
database or anyone eles set of expectations and inferences I would &
or could make & perhaps may have been given or learned to apply against
all music(s)..
It seems like
with all those expectations.of validity where one would end up looking
and feeling and demanding the knowldge that something is a certain or particular
way, says that in any case you would again really only be there listening
for and looking for affirmation of - self - regardless as to any context,
genre or message/story the music may or may not have to reveal to you.
This dialog makes
me think of Something that Weasel Walter from the legendary Experimental-NoiseAvant
Free Jazz-Rock troupe The Flying Luttenbacher's ( http://mp3.com/flying_luttenbachers
) is quoted as saying which makes reference to the
AEN band COCK ESP ( http://mp3.com/cockesp )...
the quote goes somethin like this ( as i am paraphrasing ) :
" Music Sucks
& COCK ESP doesnt suck - cuz they dont play "music" and wont ever be
concerned or preoccupied with music".
Only now am I
seein' what the wisdom & beauty is in that sentiment as the irony is
that COCK ESP does really "play music" despite their aversion to anything
to do with "music" and those who demand their performances and listening
experience be "musical".
They ( COCK ESP
) just are not concerned with having to be anything other than what the
music asks them to be and thats pretty much all you can ever hope for IMHO.
and i think thats
all I happen to ever actively observe look for in any performance context
be it 3 feet away from the performer or when listening in my bedrooom or
on my car stereo.
But this "is
it live or memorex" talk also reminds me that I've always & still do
really wanna play a show where I just show up and sit on a well adorned
stage done up to be like a very ornate and plush 1950's living room - where
i am on a couch with a remote control flicking thru all my "john price
tunes" while they are on random play where all the while I'm on the couch
surrounded by gorgeous women sipping the working man's champagne Pabst.
Blue Ribbon - watchinmg the audience watch themselves and me and...vice
versa on video screens. all over the venue.
i think the pet
shop boys,.erasure or kraftwerk all may have done something quite similar
to that effect...I'm rambling again ...
guess i need
to go & do it but i think it would be fun and 100% musical in
the process :).
"Remember To Always Kill Your Expectations"
JP/AKASH
"The World's Most Erotic Band"
http://www.akashmusic.com
http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic
