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Playing behind the beat?



Andrew Pask wrote:

"The back of the beat seems to be the province of horn players and piano
players, check out how far back Keith Jarrett can get sometimes."

In my experience, most horn players who were classically trained have been
so brow beaten by conductors to 'not rush' that they have a very strong
tendency to play way, way back of the beat.

This can cause some problems in performance (especially relative to live
playing and relating to loops).  To whit:

I once played with a professional Motown band.  I thank them profusely
because it was like going to the college of time playing with them.

They were all good players, but the time situation was thus:

The guitarist was a perfect metronomic, unwaivering player.
The entire horn section dragged like motherf*ckers but were consistent in
their sense of time.

This situation alone was fraught with problems with that situation alone.
Add to this the fact the bass player (who was a really good musician)
started off everysingle night by downing 4 cups of very, very sweet coffee,
one right after the other...................he then proceeded, very
methodically, to drink beer after beer after beer.

consequently, like clock work, he played on top of the beat for set one
(this was in bar wars, mind you), came to the middle of the beat in the
middle of set two,  started dragging in set three and then dragged horribly
as he got completely drunk by set four.

I did so many gigs with them in a short span of time that I could set my
watch by this process.

All night long I was trying as hard as possible to rectify the lack of
cohesion in the band, rhythmically and it was really, really difficult.
What was great about it, is that I had to listen harder than I've ever
listened in my life to really, really subtle details of where the beat 
lies.

I ultimately quit the band over this issue, but it was a great teacher to
me:  the greatest teacher until I started purposefully screwing around with
the placement of the beat relative to a loop.

Steve Lawson, if you happen to be reading this, please tell us all about
your concept of stretching of phrasing relative to loops that are hint at
metricity but don't play strictly metronomically.   You would do it better
justice than me.  You, along with Debhashish Battycharya (the great hindi
classical slide guitarist from Calcutta)have been my rhythmic gurus in the
last year........:-)

Oh yeah, and that crazy guy on the Santa Cruz Mall who plays tambourine 
that
has NOTHING TO DO WITH any kind of repetitive rhythm or syncopative
resolution.............He is so out, that trying to reproduce what he does
has me absolutely fascinated.   If I can cop his shit, I will put myself up
for Rhythmic Guru status............LMAO!!!

Well, my fingers are tired and I just heard that there is a killer UK DJ
performing downtown tonight (on a Wendesday night?) so I'm going to go
and jack hammer dance with all the young 19 year old drum and bass freaks.
Wish me a heart attack free dancing experience, y'all.

later,  Rick (loop.pool)

PS, I also thought I'd share this little concept with you all about
visualizing the placement of the beat in a rhythm.

In considering the placement of the backbeat (beats 2 and 4 on snare in 
most
pop songs) I tell my drum students that I try to visualize one side of my
drum studio as the 2 and the opposite side of my drum studio as the 16th
note after two and I try to visualize myself as putting the backbeat
somewhere in that space.  Make this be the 16th before 2 and the 2 if you
are trying to play 'on top' of the beat.

  Am I being clear?    I try to visualize that space as being as large
physically as possible and imagine my place in it, relative to the
metronomic note that I am trying to play.    Try this exercise.......it
really stretches the mind, but I think you can do it.