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excellent I agree 100 % another way of storing or recalling is the DAW If you consider that every midi or footcontroler command can be recorded by your computer at the same time you record the seperate audio streams, you finish the improvised song with all the elements recorded and ready for further fine tuning (the playing, the looping, the midi commands, etc each on its track ) then sit back and play back the song again thru your system all automated Claude KIM > The "storing" part and the "transferable" part always seem like > nice-to-have features. It would be a nice little check box to have there >on > the EDP brochure - You can save your loops and easily transfer them to >PC! > And yet, I increasingly don't find these features as things I have much > need for. I'm not even sure how I would use them. > > Listen to what Andre does, or what Matthias does, or what a lot of people > do now with looping, and the real music is not in some singular "loop". > These guys are constantly manipulating the loops, creating, evolving, > deconstructing them, playing against them. Doing it live! The music is >more > about the process of interacting with the loops in various ways. Working > with the repetitive elements, playing against them, changing them, >keeping > some elements repeating while fading or destroying others. > > So what is the "loop" then? If you are going to save something that is a > constant evolution, what do you save? If you are going to transfer it to > the PC, do you transfer the thing left repeating at the end, or do you > record the whole process? I think it's the latter. You do what Andre >does, > you plug a recording device in, press Record at the beginning, and Stop >an > hour later... > > The lack of a saving capability in the EDP is a limitation, but at the >same > time I found it oddly liberating after a while. I used to hate it when I > had created a really cool loop and then had to destroy it later. It seems > really negative at first. But after a while this create-and-destroy >process > caused me to realize that if I created something good once I could create > something good again. A feeling of confidence grew out of that - I could > rely on myself rather than a hard disk. From an improvising standpoint it > was a great learning experience. It's certainly not a concept you can > easily market, yet I'm glad to have had it.... > > Lately I've been re-listening to a lot of old 90's industrial music that >I > loved back in it's time. Even filling out my collections of various bands > to get all the stuff I missed back when I couldn't afford more than the > occasional cd. Godflesh, Meat Beat Manifesto, Puppy, Ministry, FLA, etc. >It > is really interesting to hear some of these bands develop over time to > their greatest moments. Much of what makes industrial music work is the > thudding aggressive repetition of the loops. But oftentimes that's where >it > failed too. Some of it just goes nowhere with that. > > For example today I listened to various Meat Beat albums. Early MBM just > seems too repetitive and one-dimensional compared to their later albums. >It > has some moments, but overall it feels restricted by the sameness of the > repetition. Whereas later albums really developed an ability to work with > the repetitive elements more. Some things change while others don't, some > elements mutate over time, some elements drop out and come back later. > There's more song structure, and more depth. Did Jack just get better? or > have better tools available? I don't know. Going from Storm the Studio to > Satyricon to Actual Sounds and Voices it was really obvious, the music >gets > much more interesting for me. Yet even so, there is still a chunky >feeling. > "Ok, let's turn this chunk on!" "Now mute this chunk and sing over it". > "Now let's fade in this other chunk and play a short wave radio > sample!" It feels very constructed. Don't get me wrong, it's brilliant, >I > can listen to it all day (and I did....) but they never quite get the > in-the-moment live feeling, and sometimes I really miss the energy of >that. > > And maybe that's the point of where I'm going with this. I enjoy >listening > to people like Andre, (or so many others here) because there's something > alive about it. It's loops and repetition that I always like, but it's > spontaneous and live and on the edge at the same time. Not the stiffly > constructed loop music of the 90's. It never feels like, "well I recorded > this loop 9 months ago, and I have to use it somewhere, so how about >here!" > boooorrrring. You can only do so much with an amen break, a tb-303, an >old > metal guitar loop, and samples from blade runner and a porno, and it was > already done better than you're going to do it anyway. I think it's time >to > move on from that. play live! > > kim > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint | Looper's Delight > kflint@loopers-delight.com | http://www.loopers-delight.com > >