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Nic - You're right. We humans perceive sound from all around us. A small nit: A piano isn't stereo, per se. It's our hearing apparatus -- our two ears getting divergent signals -- that creates the stereo image. If we had fours ears, we'd probably be strongly inclined toward 4-channel playback. And, after smoking some pot, some of us might really feel 8-channel playback is waay groovy. :-) Listen to a sound from a single loudspeaker in a room -- and, assuming you have two ears and they are both working nicely, you're listening to that sound in stereo -- as the sound bounces around the room and hits your two ears differently. This feature helped our survival-oriented forefathers (and foremothers) more accurately orient themselves as they ran toward juicy nutritious prey, or away from nasty horrible hunters. As you correctly pinpoint, it's the process of capturing an instrument's sound and using its acoustic energy to create an electronic signal that can be recorded, amplified, modified, etc. that renders the instrument "mono." In the recording process, multiple microphones are often used capture a spatial quality -- especially for acoustic instruments like piano, drums, choirs and even loudspeakers themselves! :-) Accurately rendering a three-dimensional spatial environment is what makes the advent of 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc., so enticing. Even so, here the spatial information is reduced to 5, 6, or 7 + 1 sources during playback. So yes, if you wanna do some of the most nifty way-sophisticated looping of a stereo sound image projected by your acoustic guitar, you'll need two EDP's. And in the USA, you can do that for $48/month. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nic_roozeboom@msn.com> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Stereo EDP -- some statistics and an opinion... > >Stereo shmereo - what a paper tiger!! - a few thoughts: > > > >1) all natural (as opposed to electrically enhanced) instruments are mono. > > This is such a grandiose oversimplification, I don't know where to start... > ;-) Rather than actually try, I'll offer this: a grand piano is an >eminent > example of a stereophonic instrument. > > What makes any instument, natural or otherwise, 'monophonic' is the >result > of recording and rendering it using a single channel. It's the capture >and > reproduction, not the instrument, that bears the characteristic of being > mono. > > And, being 80% guitarist myself;-) - I'd add that a classical guitar, >like > many other natural instruments, is a spatial sound source, not a > single-point sound field. > > As ever, not helping, > Nic > > > >From: "David" <vze2ncsr@verizon.net> > >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com > >To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> > >Subject: Re: Stereo EDP -- some statistics and an opinion... > >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:13:48 -0400 > > > >OK - this gets my dander up! :-) So.... > > > >Adopting Curmudgeonly Kirkdorffer Persona: > > > >Stereo shmereo - what a paper tiger!! - a few thoughts: > > > >1) all natural (as opposed to electrically enhanced) instruments are mono. > >2) I'm guessing 80% of Looper-Delight readers are electric guitarists. > >(Kim? > >Anyone?) > >3) Electric guitars, bases, violins, tubas, bazookis, kazoos, and voice > >are > >all mono. > >4) If you're creating a stereo field with your instrument, you're likely > >going through a few pieces of gear to artificially create that field -- > >OR -- you're playing some kind of (somewhat) more upscale or esoteric > >electronic instrument -- a groovebox or keyboard/synthesizer for >example. > >5) If it's been important to you to buy the tools to create the stereo > >field -- you've decided it's worth spending the money to get to stereo >-- > >cool. And you have a stereo amp, and two monitors. > >6) If you can afford stereo-enabling devices -- you probably have more than > >one of them. > >7) If you can afford to invest in stereo devices, can afford two >monitors > >and have a stereo amp, you are probably a lot closer to affording a second > >EDP than you're letting on. > > > >F A C T - 1: Here are stats from that big EDP "restart" order I helped > >organize with Gibson at the end of 1999. > > > > 89% wanted 1 EDP > > 9% wanted 2 EDP's > > 2% wanted 3 EDP's > > > >F A C T - 2: From a Looping Device Market Penetration and Demand study > >I did in in 1997, 46% of EDP owners at the time indicated they would buy > >another EDP if priced at $700 +/- 10%. (If you want a copy of this report, > >let me know). > > > >It seems if you need a stereo edp, here are your basic options: > > > > 1) Present an economic case to Gibson for them to build it > > 2) Design one yourself and build it -- if you think there's sustaining > >market demand for it, set up shop and make more. > > 3) Buy a second unit: $649.99 from Alto Music. > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2553271953&category=621 > > 4) Buy a used unit when they come for sale -- and they do! > > > >I chose option 3. For me, it was clearly the cheapest, most effective and > >quickest way to get what I needed. > > > >Exiting Curmudgeonly Kirkdorffer Persona. > > > >:-) > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mark Hamburg" <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com> > >To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> > >Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:37 AM > >Subject: Re: Stereo EDP > > > > > > > on 8/25/03 8:22 PM, Greg House at ghunicycle@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > > And frankly, I don't care for someone telling me what I need when I'm > >the one > > > > sitting with my rig going "crap, I need a mixer now." I have to buy > >MORE > >GEAR > > > > for > > > > the sole reason of WORKING AROUND basic product deficiencies like > >signal > >level > > > > incompatibilities or the fact that there's one box in the mix >that's > >not > > > > stereo. > > > > > > That was my basic point. > > > > > > The EDP not doing stereo looping is potentially disappointing. If you've > >got > > > stereo signals and you want to loop them and walk away, a stereo looper > >is > > > pretty important. If you've got sounds that you have carefully placed in > >the > > > stereo field, a stereo looper is pretty important. But if stereo were > >really > > > critical all the time, you'd think that more mix boards would have > >stereo > > > effects sends instead of mono sends. > > > > > > Not being stereo friendly, however -- i.e., not having stereo >throughs > >-- > > > means that the EDP rapidly forces a need for a mixer as well and that > >costs > > > both money and rack space. (Or it forces a need for a second EDP that > >will > > > allow you to work in stereo for most but not quite all features.) > > > > > > Being mono isn't necessarily a huge barrier to entry. Not being able to > >play > > > nicely with stereo equipment without help is a barrier to entry in >all > >but > > > the simplest setups and in those setups its a pain that you've got to > >find > >a > > > place to balance a rack mount item and hook up a separate foot pedal. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus >