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Travis wrote, 'If everyone's supposed to be keeping time for themselves, why is it so particularly important for the drummer to be able to hear the loop?' Are you being facetious here or have you not played a lot of ensemble work? ***************************************** If the loop is static, the drummer must play to it, physically. If the drummer can't hear the loop it causes the proverbial train wreck. I took a looper to a non traditional Kirtan that I played at yesterday: two singers singing hindu, urdu and arabic spiritual chants accompanied by drums (me) with the audience being the performance, singing call and response chants. Singers couldn't hear the loops and I killed it immediately and played acoustic for the whole show. I would have brought more drums if I had known this as I was counting on layering a lot of bell and 'riding' rhythms to play over, but we had an incredible time of it. ************************************** Maybe it's time now for Steve Lawson to chime in about the nature of stretching time rhythmically whilst using loops live. He inspired me to really get into the whole Jam Karet ("time is rubber" in Indonesian) mentality when I'm doing a purely solo show. Right now, he and Debhashish Battycharya (the master Indian classical slide guitarist who just got the Shakti gig with John McLaughlin gig or so I'm told) are the only people that I'd have confidence using these techniques with live while using loops. It is a cool technique and used minimally can also help one adjust to a 'lumpy' loop. Steve, if you are not too busy..............you want to take over here? Maybe you could suggest a track from one of your CDs that illustrates this technique that I"ve seen you use so many times in performance. yours, Rick