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The first looper I ever had, was a Maxon DM2000, a grey market version of the Ibanez DM2000 that I bought in the mid 80's. Maxon was originally a "Japan only" brand of Ibanez, and my unit had a little step down transformer that it plugged in to accept the higher US voltages. It had a whopping 2000 milliseconds of hold time! Thats right folks, 2 whole seconds, an eternity of loopage back then. Unlike loopers of today you could'nt set the loop length with anything other than a front panel knob. And you couln't determine a start point, you would just have to try to fit your phrase into the time frame you had set, hit the hold button and hope for the best. When I finally got a jamman, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I still have my first jamman and it still works great. Before the Maxon, I did have an original echoplex, but that was really more of a sound on sound device, that lacked the capability to hold your phrase indefinitely. Bill