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If this whole dark age thread was touched off by my comment that Tim and I had crossed paths in "the dark ages," I just meant that it was a long time ago--not a comment on the validity of that decade (though due to the fact that I was in high school, I'd have to count it as one of the least favorite periods of my life). That being said, my biggest peeve on 80s music was the ubiquitous marching-type beats that showed up in a large slice of the pop music of that time period. It was sort of the anti-groove. At the same time, the 80s also brought delayed guitars (e.g. U2s "Boy" album, Durutti Column, and so on), drum machines, and sampling to mass consumption--all strands in the DNA of the whole looping phenomenon. dan -- ghost 7 www.envelopeproductions.com www.cdbaby.com/ghost7