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Thanks, Per. The effects loop and lack of pre-programmed scales on the fireworx is not a problem fo me, as I would not use either function. When you say the Eclipse is big and heavy, you just mean the length of it in the rack, right? Both are 1 space units. I'm still up in the air, but I'll read on. I'd buy both if I could afford it. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:52 AM Subject: Re: Thoughts on the Eclipse, Fireworx, G-Force, and PCM81 > On 25 jun 2006, at 05.07, Krispen Hartung wrote: > >> I'd like to get your thoughts on the Eventide Eclipse, TC Electronic >> Fireworx, TC Electrronics G-Force, and Lexicon PCM81. > > Hi Kris, > > I own a Fireworx and I have once borrowed an Eclipse for two months (to > decide which one I should go for and also to write a test review of the > Eclipse for a guitar player magazine here in Sweden). I finally went >for > the Fireworx because I found one on a sale at a very good price. I also > like that the Fireworx is smaller and lighter. The Eclipse is quite big > and heavy. But sound-wise I think they are rather equal. What the >Eclipse > has that you won't get with the Fireworx is the option to use > pre-programmed scales for the pitch shift function. This means you can > use a MIDI footpedal to change scale and have the machine add two notes > behind the note you are playing, thus creating three piece chords that > follow the scale of the key. To do that with the Fireworx you have to > stay away from the third note when programming the patch, so you can >play > either a "major" or a "minor" third with your live instrument while > having the machine adding fifths or quarter intervals behind you. In a > way I like this "musician-craft" approach better, because it's more >free > and doesn't lock the performer into a given key. > > It took some time to get into how to program the Fireworx, but since I > finally managed to wrap my brains around it I just love it. Both the > Fireworx and the Eventide lack the CPU power to play patches that use >all > available effects. Especially high resolution reverb is using lots of > CPU. So you have to constantly zap between patches when you perform and > lay down loop layers. > > One final word on the Fireworx's effect feeback loop: it sucks because >of > latency. When setting up patches inside the Fireworx you can put a > "feedback send" or "feedback return" at any place of the effect chain. > This means that part of the signal will be sent to the units physical > feedback output and retrieved from the feedback input (digital or > analog - but if you use the main analog input for your signal > source/instrument only the digital effect send is available, and vice > versa) But the signal is getting so delayed in that process that it's >not > usable. Speaking about "effect loops" there is also another kind of > effect loop that you can set up completely inside the Fireworx program, > but this is another thing and it's working perfectly well (define an > "insert send" at any part of an effect chain and retrieve that signal > with a "insert return" block at an earlier part so you can "cook" the > sound even more by going through the same effects again. It's a quite > open system and if you have the theoretical knowledge about how to >create > certain sound with the normal effect arsenal you should be able to come > up with almost everything on a fireworx - as long as the CPU power >stays > with you that is ;-) > > However, you can hook up the Fireworx digitally in an effect loop to >some > other software or hardware and then there is no latency at all. I > sometimes use the Fireworx in Logic, connected digitally to the RMX > Multiface audio interface and in praxis it's just as having a bunch of > new - non CPU bogging - plug-ins. This option also comes with the > Eclipse, but I never tried it. > > Greetings from Sweden > > Per Boysen > www.boysen.se (Swedish) > www.looproom.com (international) > http://tinyurl.com/fauvm (podcast) > http://www.myspace.com/looproom > > > >