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Too bad that the remastered Zep CDs are too loud way too bright... >Absolutely Brian!those Zeppelin record production >still amaze me,and they are made to be turned up!those >drum sounds still sound fresh and the sounds page got >out of those small amps and guitars are the most >interesting ive heard in rock n roll history.What ive >always found brilliant about such a band was the >passion behind it,there are mistakes all over the >place like the solo on "baby i am gonna leave you" the >instrumental "black mountain side" or the bleeding >echo at the end of "you shook me" or the cut off lost >part by their engineer which i believe page fired on >the spot which they had to solve by pasting another >part at the begining of "celebration day"... >but is the honesty power and passion,no frills or >thrills they played back in those days that make them >so special to this day,almost as if it was the last >time they were going to live... >Luis > > > > >--- greg williams <gregorwilliams@comcast.net> wrote: > >> Brian, >> >> I am also a fan of Page and his production in >> general in terms of dynamics, >> but have you heard "How the West was Won"? It was >> hugely disappointing for >> me in this regard; it is squashed beyond belief, and >> so is the sound on the >> Zeppelin DVD, which was released around the same >> time. I don't know if it >> was Page himself who suddenly caved in or his >> mastering engineer, but I >> really wish I could hear those recordings with some >> dynamics still intact. >> >> ~Greg >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian Kupferschmid >> [mailto:apparitionapparition@yahoo.com] >> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:48 AM >> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com >> Subject: Re: Why contemporary music sounds terrible >> >> I wholly agree with this, I believe a lot of today's >> music is crap, not just because the talent is >> lacking, >> but the dynamics as a whole is lacking. Aside from >> super compressed material, the bands themselves only >> see to know two sounds, clean and dirty. Where's >> the >> middle ground? I can listen to a blues song and >> still >> hear the dynamics, I can hear the accentuations on >> the >> notes being played to create emotion. A lot of >> today's pop and rock music lacks that. Mind you, >> Metal in all it's forms, isn't supposed to be >> dynamic >> in the musical sense, but why would you squeeze the >> life out of any song to make it in your face? My >> favorite stuff to listen to would be anything Jimmy >> Page produced(Led Zeppelin for sure). He composed >> his >> songs and used the studio to enhance his material >> with >> what he refers to "light and shade". The >> combination >> of close and room micing, soft versus loud and >> layering acoustics with clean electrics and so on. >> If >> you think about it, even some of the heaviest >> sounding >> stuff he did, wasn't all that distorted. >> Ultimately, >> his use of dynamics traslated over into the >> mastering >> part as well, what makes the big parts sound big is >> the small parts, thus making the song truly >> engulfing. >> Another band to use dynamics to it's fullest is >> Tool, >> because of the ebb and flow, you can listen to an 8 >> minute tune and not get bored, because the shifts in >> phrasing and dynamics keeps you there, and what's >> more, everytime you listen to it, a new part pops up >> you didn't realise was there before. Anyway, I've >> spoken what I think, so I have to agree, part of > > what >> is annoying about today's music is the lack of >> dynamics, it wears you out. >> --- Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote: >> >> > This is an interesting article posted on the jazz >> > guitar discussion group. >> > Jeff Kaiser and I had some interesting discussions >> > about the abuses or >> > misgivings of compression and the quest for hotter >> > levels in newer CDs when >> > I was mastering the discs for the Boise >> Experimental >> > Music Festival....all >> > the different ways you can increase levels (for >> CDs >> > to sound comparable to > > > other professional CDs in your player), yet >> > maintain natural dynamics, etc. >> > Now, it has occured to me that often times when I >> > hear a CD, especially >> > pop/rock CDs, and I think to myself, wow that is a >> > really hot and "in your >> > face" level", the mix also doesn't have much of a >> > dynamic range...some guy >> > is screaming his lyrics, or you can tell that is >> is >> > practically blowing his >> > brains out to get that tone out of his horn...but >> it >> > is no louder than the >> > section where he is wispering poetry over an >> ambient >> > section. It's like >> > compress, compress, compress, limit, limit, >> > limit....turn that wave form >> > into a solid bar, and then raise it to 0db...in >> your >> > face, 100% of the time. >> > Below is the first time I've seen this referred to >> > as exhausting, but it >> > makes sense. Even if you turn your stereo down, >> > there might be something to >> > be said of giving the human pyche a break with >> > natural dynamics and more >> > space. >> > >> >Tension....release....tension...release....louder....softer, >> > etc, >> > etc. >> > >> > This article/topic, could I suppose turn into the >> > discussion of the >> > pschological results/benefits of adding more space >> > to one's compositions >> > (not making the composition "better" or "worse," >> > mind you). Can adding more >> > space and natural dynamics put the human psche at >> > ease? Is it more condusive >> > to generating natural emotive responses? (natural >> > meaning those that one >> > might expect on the bell curve of a person, day to >> > day). Good questions. I >> > suppose part II of the article below could explore >> > this: "Natural dynamics >> > in music and 'Horror of the Vacuum'." >> > >> > What would be hilarious, or maybe frightening, is >> if >> > something happened to >> > our atmosphere, such that it added a form of >> > compression and normalization >> > to 0db to all sound....imagine walking down the >> > street, hearing a boy wisper >> > to his mother, a man scream at his dog, a >> > streetworker jackhammering, cars >> > beeping, etc...but everything never veered much >> > from 0db....even the >> > ambience in the atmosphere (white noise) would be >> > 0db. We might go insane. >> > :) >> > >> > I included some excerpts from the article below, >> as >> > well. >> > >> > Kris >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> > Everything Louder Than Everything Else: Have the >> > loudness wars reached their >> > final battle? >> > >> >http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/09/28cover.html >> > >> > "You listen to these modern records, they're >> > atrocious, they have sound all >> > over them. There's no definition of nothing, no >> > vocal, no nothing, just >> > like - static." >> > >> > - Bob Dylan in Rolling Stone magazine >> > >> > "There's something . . . sinister in audio that is >> > causing our listeners >> > fatigue and even pain while trying to enjoy their >> > favorite music. It has >> > been propagated by A&R departments for the last >> > eight years: The complete >> > abuse of compression in mastering (forced on the >> > mastering engineers against >> > their will and better judgment)." >> > >> > "The mistaken belief that a 'super loud' record >> will >> > sound better and >> > magically turn a song into a hit has caused most >> > major label releases in the >> > past eight years to be an aural assault on the >> > listener," Montrone's letter >> > continued. "Have you ever heard one of those test >> > tones on TV when the >> > station is off the air? Notice how it becomes > > > painfully annoying in a very >> > short time? That's essentially what you do to a >> song >> > when you super compress >> > it. You eliminate all dynamics." >> > >> > For those already confused, Montrone was >> essentially >> > saying that there are >> >=== message truncated === > > >www.myspace.com/luisangulocom > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go >with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. >http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail -- ... http://www.zmix.net