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ah..I detect a storm brewing...do I seed the clouds...? I respect the well-established school of thought behind valuing work monetarily. It can be nice to get money after a show, but it simply doesn't matter to me. I've had a telecommuting day job for seven years that pays enough and is extremely flexible, allowing me to do things like this tour while still making some cash by logging on late at night. My perspective is, that's what I do for money. Music, I do for itself and whether I gain or lose money in the process is irrelevant. I don't need a second job and if I did, I'd find something where payment was guaranteed and had a direct relation to the time I put into it, which sure as hell isn't the case in any sort of art. Certainly part of the argument against playing for free runs that it devalues the market for everyone else who may NEED to be paid. Maybe so, but the commercial music industry and lack of government arts funding deserve much more blame for their lack of support, and further, anyone who needs to be paid for their music has to know that they're going out on a highly arbitrary limb in relation to their survival. Even more so if they're playing unusual stuff. I know for a fact that these coffeeshops that somehow survive charging $1.75 for their brown water don't have the cash to front for my unknown ass to sit in a corner and do what I love. I'd rather be playing than anything else, so I provide them some atmosphere and get a world of enjoyment in return, $20 or no $20. As a side note, every experimental/arts venue I've played at or talked to so far has, actually, made a point of charging a cover and then giving the bulk (if not all) the door to the musicians. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com www.chinapaintingmusic.com > Never play for free.