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My perspective on this extraordinary debate is likely skewed but I'll chime in anyway. My goal since I was a teenager has been to make my living entirely in music, and I have been blessed to have been (modestly) successful at it for over 20 years now, although I certainly do not make a lot of money. My income is about 50% teaching, both privately and at the college level, and about 50% gigs, depending in large part on the time of year. Like many on this list, I have put my whole life, spirit and soul into what I love because I was somehow driven to do so. I value highly the time, effort and passion that I have put into learning my craft, and in a perfect world I believe others should value this as much as any other profession which demands so much unpaid training, such as a doctor or lawyer. It is an imperfect world, however, but I still value what I do and what I am and do not gladly give my services away. Is this an idealistic stance? Yes it is. Is it impractical? I haven't found it to be so, but I have put a lot of effort into marketing myself, and I'm fortunate to live in an active and vibrant market (Northern California). As a rule I do not play without compensation excepting my annual faculty recitals, which are free to the public and I view as part of my salary, or festivals (such as Y2K) where the "exposure" - I hate to use that word - is very real and beautiful and not speculation or fantasy. I get calls to do "benefit" gigs all the time (I'm a classical guitarist, so I play a lot of corporate parties and weddings), and politely turn them down if they cannot pay my usual fee. They generally then sound perplexed or questioning, and I simply ask them if they are making a salary calling people and asking them to donate their services and time. They almost always are, and that usually ends the conversation, that is unless they ask for a recommendation of someone else willing to give their services and time away, which I decline as well. Love and Music, ~Greg http:/www.gregwilliamsguitar.com http:/www.myspace.com/gregwilliamsguitarist -----Original Message----- From: Chris Sewell [mailto:lunamusic@mac.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:26 PM To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid? I'm in awe of you guys. This all started with a very offhand, flippant remark by me to a fellow musician looking for help with some gigs. I felt bad originally because I felt like I demeaned him in some way. It was not my intent. I deeply respect anybody who's out there in the trenches. I don't know about all these philosophers, or avant garde composers you are citing. I just want to show up to the gig, have some fun, play well, get some applause (yeah right), and get paid. Im 4 to 6 hours away from home. Away from my family, dealing with stingy club owners, drunk assholes who want to beatbox on my mic, driving late at night when the road is full of drunks. I feel I should be paid fairly, and I am, because I demand it. Is that simple. Great thread(s) though. You guys rock. Chris