Re: Hardware+software newbie questions: help with music setup

[Nick <ParadoxQuine@gmail.com>]

Wow, I can't thank you enough for all your help :)

So, am I correct in thinking if I buy a firewire audio interface such as one of the two you recommended, and it has say, two inputs and two outputs, i could have it routed so audio goes 

comp>interface>kaoss>back to interface>into comp
                         >speakers

thus allowing me to completely control what audio goes o the speakers and what goes to the kaoss pad then back in to my computer so it can be recorded and looped and then switched to speakers when it's ready to be mixed in.

if i can do all that with just a firewire audio interface and live, i'll be a very happy and not broke college student :)

as for lag, i'm not quite sure what you mean by this: 

"Most audio interfaces offer a direct monitoring output of input

streams (mic/line inputs), normally through the phones output. So
there you have a workaround to snag a live input with almost zero
latency if going for parallel processing in the Kaoss Pad. If latency
is not an issue you might as well use Live's software mixer to route a
live input to any audio interface output."

does that mean with something like the audiofire2, i could connect the eighth inch connector to the phones port and select that as input for a track in ableton, allowing me to record straight from the kaoss pad with no lag? id definitely like to minimize or eliminate lag, as im quite bad at compensating for it.

thanks again!
-Quine

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:51 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Nick <ParadoxQuine@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for all the advice Per, it sounds like my goals are more realistic
> than I thought :)

The challenge these days is not to find good tools but to figure out
the best ways to use them to get the results you envision.

> One thing I've been wondering is: I love manipulating audio with the kaoss
> pad, but there are two things I'd really like to do: 1) manipulate only PART
> of the incoming signal (ie the vocals, the bass, etc). I know a lot of the
> effects can target a frequency range, but would it be possible for me to
> send the audio to some kind of mixer, which would then send a signal to the
> kaoss and another to my speakers, and would also let me only send a certain
> frequency range to the kaoss pad at a time?

Ableton Live already IS that kind of mixer. Given you are using it
with a multi in/output audio interface. All inputs and outputs are
displayed in Live for routing. So as long as your vocals go into the
computer through one particular audio interface input channel you
should be able to rout it anywhere, duplicate it for parallel routing
and further processing.

2) is there any way I can get
> the audio out from the kaoss into my computer and then, somehow, to my
> speakers (I'd assume i'd set the kaoss pad to send, resulting in the
> speakers playing the original track + kaoss effected track just like my
> current comp->pad->speaker setup). That way I could process sound via the
> pad but still record it via ableton live so I wouldn't have to buy a $1k+
> hardware looper.

Same answer as above applies here as well ;-)

However, you should be aware of the fact that a live audio input is
being a bit delayed (latency) by the digitizing process. Same goes
when making the signal analog at the output. This is a matter of about
twenty milliseconds and may or may not be an issue, depending on the
situation.

Most audio interfaces offer a direct monitoring output of input
streams (mic/line inputs), normally through the phones output. So
there you have a workaround to snag a live input with almost zero
latency if going for parallel processing in the Kaoss Pad. If latency
is not an issue you might as well use Live's software mixer to route a
live input to any audio interface output.

> If it's not possible to do 2) up there, and I can't get audio from my kaoss
> back into my comp to be looped, what is a good hardware looper to look at?

Only you can answer that. Depends on what functions you need. Go to a
music store and try them out so you can buy the one that you like.

> Also, any recommendations on firewire audio boxes? I'd prefer inexpensive,

Inexpensive audio interfaces means less good mic pre amps. If not
using acoustic mic inputs you will not suffer from that though. I have
an Ecco AudioFire2 that sounds as good as my RME FireFace400 (most
bang for the buck when also considering mic input pre amp quality) as
far as analog output fidelity goes. That's one of the least expensive
boxes that still offers a digital input, something I wouldn't want to
miss out on because it makes the box compatible with other gear now
and in the future. Other good audio interfaces in that lowest price
range are also available - but the AudioFire2 looks cool! ;-)

I regard the RME FireFace400 as most bang for the buck when also
considering mic input pre amp quality. It sounds really good and to
get a better mic input sound you would have to pay a lot more.

> but I'll wait until I can afford a $1k one if that's the only way to ensure
> insanely small lag and drift (I'm very particular about everything being
> perfectly on time).

Latency is not smaller with a more expensive audio interface. As said,
what the bigger price tag brings are better mic input sound and useful
utility features. Software like Ableton Live automatically compensates
for the latency when playing back audio. This means both AD/DA
conversion latency and locally created latency due to software effect
plug-ins on the channel. Software loopers usually compensate for the
AD/DA conversion latency.

But this compensation does not apply to a real-time live audio input
signal! This is because the software needs to know in advance what
audio is incoming (lookahead functionality) in order to time shift the
playback.

> Lastly (sorry if my email is too long!), are there any other devices out
> there for effects/sound manipulation that are similar to a kaoss pad? I
> would really like to stack effects (I think two would be plenty though) but
> the x-y touch pad is, for certain, the most natural way to manipulate sound
> for me. So, be it another kaoss pad (if that's actually useful) or something
> totally different, I'd love to hear of anything else that fits my style.

You should read the Ableton Live manual, the chapter on its built-in
effects! Live has some really nice effect plug-ins that can be
controlled by the Kaoss Pad over MIDI. You can also do a search at the
Live forum for inspiration:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/index.php

--

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.myspace.com/perboysen
www.stockholm-athens.com