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I don't produce much music, compared to most people on this list, so take my opinions for what they are worth. I've worked with Max, PD, Bidule, Audiomulch, Usine, EnergyXT, Live, Logic, Opcode's Studio Vision (remember them?), Motu performer (years ago), and probably some other stuff I can't remember. I can write basic C code, and java. I love jazz, and rhythm and improvisation. I loved MAX for "small scale" algorithmic stuff. But I bogged down when I tried to do a full scale composition, and integrating many changes over time in Max were problematic. Rhythm in Max wasn't straightforward either. I'm no expert in Bidule, Audiomulch and Usine, but I didn't find "large scale" composition with changes in structure over time an easy intuitive thing with any of them either. I'm not talking Elliot Carter here, but standard song structure, where you move back and forth through various themes and patterns. Live on the other hand is brilliant for improvisational, large scale, change over time composition. It excels in improvisation in a rhythmic environment, and is designed from the ground up for basic song structure. What it lacks are the small scale idiosyncratic constructs that make music interesting to me. I fantasized about writing my own custom VST looping instrument in C++ until Jeff Larson pointed out it was about as much fun as a "Tabasco Enema." EnergyXT was probably the best medium for me up till now, but it also had many issues. I liked how it integrated VSTs and midi and audio in a modular, straight forward environment. It was certainly better than Max, Bidule or Usine for standard song structure. With the options of VST plugins, Max modules and the architecture of Live, I can't imagine a better environment. I'm really interested to hear what Krispen thinks. And Jeff Kaiser, and Per and Warren Sirota and anyone else who has worked with Max. I just think this is huge! -- Art Simon simart@null.net myspace [dot] com/artsimon