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Great post, Marc! You actually said what I was trying to say - "your fingers have to be faster than your brain but your brain (and ears) has to stay in command". Sorry about appearing patronizing, even though talking to "a brick" ;-) That interpretation of my post reminds me that I need to work on refining my English more. I guess my English fingers are faster than my brain... Greetings from Sweden Per Boysen www.boysen.se www.perboysen.com On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 1:02 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote: > I DO see what you mean Per, and i have had similar experiences in >regards to > my Piano education. As a kid I was taught from age 4, reading the little > black dots, playing the keys.. and learning scales. By age 9 I was grade >8 > (UK levels thing... dunno what it means really) and COULD NOT IMPROVISE A > NOTE... Found rock and roll, got a guitar, started teaching myself... > improvising, and promptly forgot all my piano! ... and have many >theory's as > to the wrong way of teaching an instrument now... > > BUT... > > I must say that your response is a tad... um obscure... (and not a little > patronising... altho dont mind me... I LIKE it... Im a brick). > I think for you to improvise truly with your instrument, you have to... > er... be at one with its neck...(man) have some routes around it, that >you > don't "know to be true cos you have analyzed the structure of the tuning > system" but "FEEL to be true, cos thats where your fingers go...!" > > Just cos I know that a note played 2 stings across and two notes up is an > octave, doesnt mean that I play the same on the 3rd string as I do on the > 1st... > > I suppose I play guitar based on what I read about Micheal Karoli from >Can , > his approach was to play free and loose, letting his fingers go where >they > will, but within the contraints of what his fingers had learned. I am >not at > all interested in the atonal scrabblings of free improv jazz guitarists, >i > think its boring, but to improvise freely without restrictions on melody >and > structure, but creating music WITH melody and structure, then I need my > fingers to work faster than my brain... and my fingers do that... now... >For > me to start with a new tuning now, I could get some theoretical and tonal > exitement from that, very much so... but it would be brain powered, not >body > powered. > > But I DO want to try... maybe Im taking shit...! > Im gonna give it a go... I have a spare guitar, and Im gonna tune it >to... > what? > > What are the specific string tunings for this 5ths system...? > > Im gonna tune like that... and start recording... watch this space!! > > mark > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Marc, >> >> I think the guys that experiment with different tunings don't really >> "think" the music as "an instrument". We rather think the the music as >> the notes; I mean, according to a key, a scale (not "guitar neck" >> scale but the real sounding scale, the vibreations) and a tonal >> center. If you think music like that, all you have to do is to find >> out "where on this new instrument are the octave, the fifth" etc etc. >> Soon you're off playing your usual stuff with the new instrument's >> special touch options. >> >> To learn an instrument as "I put my finger down here to get this note" >> is a mistake IMHO and I'm amazed that music schools still do that to >> kids. You should learn instrument by first learning a melody of let's >> say three notes. Then you find out how to play that melody on the >> instrument. >> >> Greetings from Sweden >> >> Per Boysen >> www.boysen.se >> www.perboysen.com >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:44 AM, mark francombe ><mark@markfrancombe.com> >> wrote: >> > I've been watching this tread with grrat interest, I think its amazing >> > how >> > so many of you have experimented with tunings, and have of course >tried >> > some >> > things myself on spare guitars, for effects. (Like for example the >> > tunings >> > that Rick mentioned, about tuning the whole guitar to one note for >> > groovy >> > droning noise stuff etc). >> > >> > What really amazes me however is... do you guys reall RE-learn all >your >> > scales and chords for all these different tunings? I mean, if you >tune >> > to >> > this 5ths approach... how do you play a chord!!! Its taken me 33 years >> > (since I first got a guitar) to learn a few girl guide chords, and a >> > couple >> > of bar chords.... one (ok two) scales, that I can slide up and down... >> > but >> > the thing that has stopped me REALLY getting into tuning is this... >Do I >> > really have to forget what I ever knew... and dedicate my life to a >new >> > tuning???? >> > >> > I myself have been using baritone guitar for 10 years, with a A based >> > tuning, this gives me the LOWS I need for bass parts, and I use a lot >of >> > pitch shifting, and can go high enough... but this is still standard >> > tuning >> > basically, just tined down a bit... >> > >> > Have to try out this 5ths thing >> > >> > m >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Charles Zwicky ><cazwicky@earthlink.net> >> > wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Per Boysen wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Anyone here on the list having tried tuning a guitar in fifths for >> >>>> wider orchestration options? Or even wider intervals? Would make >> >>>> sense >> >>>> when looping to get lower bass and higher highs. I guess you have >to >> >>>> pick a custom string set for this. >> >>>> >> >>>> Greetings from Sweden >> >>>> >> >>>> Per Boysen >> >>>> www.boysen.se >> >>>> www.perboysen.com >> >> >> >> >> >> I have been tuning in straight fifths for the past 15 years or >so.... >> >> >> >> http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/zwickrig.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ... >> >> http://www.zmix.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > www.markfrancombe.com >> > http://vimeo.com/user825094 >> > http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe >> > http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe >> > www.looop.no >> > >> > > > > -- > www.markfrancombe.com > http://vimeo.com/user825094 > http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe > http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe > www.looop.no >