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thanks Andy, but you did answer it really. It's funny but i recently compiled alot of my tunes for release on Bandcamp. I realized that the best (meaning my favorite) sounds were all direct into the board recordings. i have used whatever amp/speaker modelers I had in whatever fx box I was using at the time. All the newer stuff was done while wearing headphones in a quiet apartment. I arrange it so that my chain is distortion/fuzz into amp modelers (currently Digitech RP 250 and or Korg AX 3000G) into modfx/delay/reverb into loopers into sometimes more mangle fx into mixer. Not the best way but there ya go. i stay stereo from the outputs of the multi fx boxes. i really want a proper mixer so that i can feed more of everything into everything else sort of :) All that said i still believe that a good real amp cranked up sounds better. I just can't do that anymore in real life. I guess it come down to good tone being subjective. I am always looking for "the" sound. hmmm, maybe this? http://www.beavisaudio.com/Projects/DBS/ And your right about Bill Walker! He has the "tone"! First cup 'o coffee wearing off, gotta go get more! best, Jeff Ad astra per alia porci - Steinbeck http://jeffduke.org/ http://www.myspace.com/loopsinphasespace http://jeffduke.bandcamp.com/ http://www.ustream.tv/channel/loopydroneyglitchywacky-presents http://www.justin.tv/loopslab http://www.vimeo.com/jeffduke http://www.reverbnation.com/thejeffduke http://virb.com/jeffduke http://themineisthemind.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/user/sticky899 http://www.sugarat.org/tecbab/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy butler" <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:15 AM Subject: Re: MY NEW TOY > Jeff Duke wrote: >>> Rather than put two amp sims after the fx, surely it would be neater >to >>> put one amp sim between guitar and fx. >> >> What would you recommend in a stereo amp sim Andy? >> >> Jeff >> > > Oh, I'm probably the worst person to ask about amp sims ;-) > Ask Bill Walker. > > I only really started playing electric guitar when I started looping, > and while I played bass through a nice valve setup for years I eventually > found that it just wouldn't reproduce the sort of playing I put into it. > (i.e. I used to sometimes get quite a lot going at once, but wasn't > willing to reduce the low frequency content of the sound.) > > Hence I now use JBL Eons for everything, and don't possess a decent amp > sim. > > Currently I'm experimenting with a Moogerfooger Lo-pass to mellow > out the fuzzy tones from my ADA MP1 valve pre. > > However, the raw fuzz/overdrive sounds I use sound ok to me, and it seems > also to the audience. Only knowledgeable guitarists have sometimes > to worried that I have a flat battery somewhere ;-) > > Generally, I reckon that for a looping device, a clean full range sound >is > preferable > so that the layers can remain distinct in the mix. > > Hence I would always put an amp sim before the looper, rather than after. > Then it would be possible to build up a mix using different amp tones. > > My guess was that Ted wanted to "ampify" his pa speakers by putting a > stereo > amp sim (two SansAmps) just in front of them. > It's a different approach...and I don't doubt he'd make it work. > > I'd say 'hope that helps', only as I didn't > answer the question...... :-) > > andy > > > >