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Re: Realistic drum programming/recording for songs



I think Rick has already written a very extensive primer on this
subject.  Should be in the archives if those are still working.

I think one of the basic takeaways was use real hi-hat if possible.  I
think Rick said he actually used to get paid to play hi hat over
programmed beats.

But I won't speak any more for Rick and will instead point to the
archives (but I'm not having any luck searching them at this point.)

Kevin

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:44 AM, richard sales <richard@glasswing.com> 
wrote:
> A bottomless pit!
> I use NI Maschine to program and Steven Slate Drums Platinum for sounds.
> Excellent sort of pop rock and roll sounds.  Takes a fair bit of EQ work 
> for
> other styles.
>
> I tried using my old SP12 as a drum controller but the latency was pretty
> noticeable when triggering MIDI notes.  I had to slip all the notes 
> forward
> to compensate for the lag.
>
> Maschine and Slate Drums work great for fairly straight forward stuff.
>
> I do think the best solution is some kind of V / electronic Drums etc
> triggering the MIDI stuff.
>
> One thing I'm thinking about is hiring remote drummers to do tracks on V
> Drums, or deriving MIDI data from their tracks (Trigger, Drumagog) and 
> doing
> drum replacement where needed.  Not sure what a good remote drummer 
> costs,
> though.
>
> I see opportunity here, Mr. R Walker!
>
> I think the new Ableton can derive MIDI from analog now too.  More
> utilitarian bang for the buck.
>
> AS Simeon said, you can also step program.  Kontakt has a good step
> programmer, although I haven't really used it yet - just tinkered a bit.
>
> richard sales
> www.glasswing.com
> www.richardsales.com
> www.hayleysales.com
> www.goodnaturefarms.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Steven Clements wrote:
>
> I recommend Toontracks Superior Drummer.
>
> There's lots you can do for realistic sounding drums and you can even use
> their midi drum beats as a start.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You're right that it is "endlessly time consuming" to fake a live
>> drummer. Learning to do the programming right is only step one, then
>> you need to set the sound right and mix it dynamically. Oh man, what
>> time consuming activities! I'm wondering why so many people put so
>> much time into faking something when there are loads of other just as
>> cool drumming approaches? Just imagine a crappy 505 or 606 with edgy
>> sound attitude! About a thousand times as easy to make good than
>> faking a live drummer.
>>
>> Greetings from Sweden
>>
>> Per Boysen
>> www.perboysen.com
>> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Buzap Buzap <buzap@gmx.net> wrote:
>> > Hi folks
>> >
>> > I'd like to lay down somewhat realistic acoustic drums for song 
>> > writing
>> > purposes (pop ballads, funk, latin, world) in home recording 
>> > environment.
>> > Currently, I program drums in Logic Pro. I also have an acoustic drum
>> > set at work where I can play basic drum grooves that reasonably ok.
>> > However, I don't have a good sounding kit and have no experience
>> > whatsoever with drum micing.
>> >
>> > My current approach is basically similar to this:
>> > http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/articles/drum-prog.htm
>> > First, I lay down basic patterns in Logic Ultrabeat. Then, I tweak the
>> > timing in piano roll. Last - and this is the most time consuming part 
>> > - I
>> > tweak velocities, create ghost notes, rolls in HyperEdit mode.
>> >
>> > How should I proceed next?
>> > My current thoughts:
>> >
>> > A.
>> > Get a real hi-hat machine + snare, set them up with mics. (e-drum
>> > cymbals never sound realistic enough for me, don't like snares on 
>> > e-drums
>> > either for funky stuff).
>> > For the rest, use e-drum kick pedals, pads etc.
>> >
>> > B.
>> > Go the software road (i.e. Superior Drummer) and dive deeper into drum
>> > programming.
>> >
>> > With drum programming, I can get fairly realistic results. I'm very
>> > flexible, can start with basic patterns and can refine/change things 
>> > over
>> > time. However, the process is time consuming & seemingly endless...
>> >
>> > With real drum set, there is the beauty of playing immediately the 
>> > right
>> > groove with a gut feeling. However, the home recording environment 
>> > (space,
>> > neighbours) and the mic set-up can be tricky.
>> >
>> > I know the best solution is to get a real drummer in a studio
>> > environment. But laying down stuff quickly (still realistically as 
>> > possible)
>> > is more important than having the perfect drum track.
>> >
>> > Would like to hear your experience & advice on this subject.
>> >
>> > best regards
>> > Buzap
>> >
>>
>
>



-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)