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Re: Live looping to Midi Clock solution sought!



Hi Henry,

That's a lot of gadget you have going. I read it carefully but never
understood what you you are going to use as the source for the MIDI
clock that you want everything to follow? What you want to do is
possible and rather simple to set up. Are you familiar with the gear
and software? In case not, read up! There are two important aspects:
First you need to decide on the tempo master (where the MIDI Clock
sync signal is generated and distributed to all the slaves). The
looping you are describing is the very simplest form of quantized
looping. "Quantize" in live looping does not mean that the audio is
quantized - like in a sequencer - but rather that the command you give
is to be executed at a certain time cue, for example "at the next bar
downbeat". If you decide to use the Looper plugin of Ableton live you
just chose "bar" as quantize value. If you decide to use Mobius you
make a similar choice in the plugin's preferences. But most loopers
doesn't think in terms like "bars" but rather in terms like "loop",
"cycle" and "sub cycle".

For example if you are running Mobius as a plugin of Live you set Live
to follow the external MIDI clock signal (wherever that comes from)
and then you set the Mobius plugin to follow "host sync" and finally
you set quantize for the Mobius plugin to "cycle". "Cycle" is the name
for the very first loop you create and if the first loop you catch is
one bar long (from Live's perspective of liner time) the actual
commands quantizing in Mobius will work on a one bar grid.

The other stuff you are mentioning is simply a question about signal
routing and nothing I can help you with. Whatever signal you rout into
the looper will be looped if you put the looper into Overdub Mode (or
similar). For the Mobius looper there is a Global Mute command and by
its preferences you may decide how the un-mute will be handled; by
following the linear time (MIDI Clock/Host sync), by restarting from
loop its beginning or by continuing from exactly where you muted (like
"paus" on a tape machine).

Now decide on what to use and set up the signal routing! Oh, one more
thing: if you plan on using both Logic and Live at the same time I
would not recommend that. The reason is that Logic can't follow MIDI
Clock (Apple took it out because it is such a bad sync protocol)
unless you have an old copy of Logic, 7.xx version. You can generate
audio files in Logic that you run in Live. If you have to use software
instruments in Logic it might be a more stable solution to run them by
Mainstage instead. You may still run loopers and back track audio
files in Mainstage but with a better visual display and more stable.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 7:22 PM,  <info@riversonicstudios.com> wrote:
> Hi Per,
>
> I am a pro solo singer-songwriter (box,alto sax keys, guitar) now based 
> in
> Nimes, France and am busy preparing my rig/musical arrangements for 
> various
> European tours later this year.
>
> Steven Bingham suggested I contact you. I am seeking a way to work my 
> rig so
> I can play the sax over my music in my shows.
> Sorry to spring this one on you but it sounds like you are the real
> authority on this subject!
>
> Am keen to find a way to allow me to  punch in/record a section of the
> complete live mix, quantised to midi clock, as I am playing it on the
> keyboards to then punch out of recording and then have that recorded loop
> playback instantaneously so I can let go of the keys
>  and play my sax over what I have just looped, muting the original at the
> same time of course, all on the fly! I dont want to be doing this without
> the loop punch in/outs
>  being quantised to MidiClock so I dont have to be precise with the 
> punches
> all be it punching in/out before the place I wish to do so!. Somehow I 
> also
> need to have the
> main mix muted automatically while the loop is playing back and then 
> return
> when switching the loop off to continue through the rest of the song. 
> Bare
> in mind I maybe
> also trigering arpeggiators from external synths as well as KARMA from 
> the
> KRONOS and playing back complete drum backing tracks from my MacBook in
> ABLETON
>  LIVE or Logic Audio. It is also possible for the KRONOS to sync to mid
> clock: at the moment I use it as the master midi clock. There are various
> ways of using the
> KRONOS to trigger loops and drum sequences in sync via struck keys and
> certainly the SoftStep can be utilised for this purpose too although it 
> is
> not ideal for keyboard
>  players as often one needs to "feel" a pedal switch "click" rather than
> having to confirm it actually has with the SoftSteps little lights which
> when sitting down are often
> obscured simply by the natural angle one is sitting at! Ideally the whole
> looping process could be automated via some key strikes on a note on/off
> basis!?...
>
> There are lots of "looping" artists out there: I wouldnt describe myself 
> as
> one of those! however I simply need something that will allow me to loop
> what I am doing
>  from the 2 buss mix at any given moment to allow me to improvise as 
> long as
> I wish and then return to that mix in perfect sync. One possible solution
> could be to have
> what I am playing stop on entry of the just recorded loop to then somehoe
> re-release the keyboards again for real time playing immediately the 
> loop is
> stopped. Perhaps there is a note command or something in SOOPER LOOPER 
> that
> I could hit
>  on one of my keyboards at any given time (say an assigned note within a
> chord) that would cease any Korg KRONOS KARMA/external midiclocked arps 
> etc
> when that
> same key note starts to trigger the loop (after having recorded it of 
> course
> bars earlier) then another note that could be within the first chord of 
> the
> returning live playing
> that also stops the looper playing back!...?
>
> I imagine this isnt something that can be discussed adequately via 
> email: as
> such would it be possible we could discuss this over Skype ?
>
> My rig:
>
> Korg KRONOS 88 keyboard
> 2112 MacBook Pro running Ableton Live/Logic Audio
> TC-Helicon VoiceLive2 vocal fx
> SoftStep
> 12 Step
>
> External synths
> Alesis Andromeda A6 analog keyboard
> Oberheim Matrix 1000 analog rack synth x2
> Ensoniq ESQ-M x2 analog rack synth
> EMU Morpheus
> Korg Wavestation SR
> Korg EX-8000 analog rack synth
> Waldorf Pulse+ analog rack mono synth
> Waldorf  rack
> Yamaha FS1r
> Lexicon MPX1 fx x2
> Lexicon PCM80 fx
>
> Emagic Unitor 8 for MacBook and main rig has another Unitor 8 running in
> patch mode.
>
> You can get hear some of my music here some of which I am working into my
> live set.
>
> Thanks for your time
>
> best
>
> Henry Frampton
> www.riversonicstudios.com
>
> Hi Henry,
>
> Interesting setup you have!
>
> To be perfectly honest this is way beyond my comfort zone in terms of 
> setup:
> I've never tried to sync to midi clock and I certainly don't use multiple
> keyboards and so on!!
>
> With the loop setup I use (Sooperlooper within Logic 9) it would be easy
> enough to setup the SoftStep to control record / stop / mute and so on, 
> but
> I frankly have no idea about the routing you're asking about, and if 
> you're
> running Ableton Live I haven't been able to get Sooperlooper to run
> convincingly with it (though Jason has I think).
>
> I'm pretty certain that SL will sync to midi clock if needed, but I've 
> not
> tried it.
>
> My best suggestion would be to post the details of the setup to the 
> Loopers
> Delight forum, where there are basically several guys who are able to 
> pretty
> well answer any looping question ever invented (two whom I've worked 
> with -
> Andy Butler and Per Boysen - are an encyclopedia of looping between them,
> and seem to answer posts within hours!).
>
> give that a go as I'm sure it will turn up the best suggestions……
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 22 Jan 2013, at 10:08, Henry Frampton <henryframptonmusic@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Henry Frampton here ! finally moved to Nimes!
>
> Jason suggested I contact you about this! Really need to work out my rig 
> so
> I can play the sax over my music in my shows.
>
> Am busy sorting out a way to allow me to quantise punch in record a 
> section
> of the complete live mix as I am playing it on the keyboards to then 
> punch
> out of recording and then have that recorded loop playback 
> instantaneously
> so I can let go of the keys and play my sax over what I have just looped,
> all on the fly!... also I dont want to be doing this without the loop 
> punch
> in/outs being quantised to MidiClock so I dont have to be precise with 
> the
> punches all be it punching in before the place I wish to!. Somehow I also
> need to have the main mix muted automatically while the loop is playing 
> back
> and then return when switching the loop off to continue through the rest 
> of
> the song. Bare in mind I maybe also trigering arpeggiators from external
> synths as well as KARMA from the KRONOS and playing back complete drum
> backing tracks from my MacBook in ABLETON LIVE.
>
> Would be best to have a chat with you over skype or I can call you for 
> free
> on your landline from France.
>
> Sorry to spring this one on you but it sounds like you might be just the
> right man to consult on this issue according to Jason!
>
> My rig:
>
> Korg KRONOS 88 keyboard
> 2112 MacBook Pro running Ableton Live
> TC-Helicon VoiceLive2 vocal fx
> SoftStep
> 12 Step
>
> External synths
> Alesis Andromeda A6 analog keyboard
> Oberheim Matrix 1000 analog rack synth x2
> Ensoniq ESQ-M x2 analog rack synth
> EMU Morpheus
> Korg Wavestation SR
> Korg EX-8000 analog rack synth
> Waldorf Pulse+ analog rack mono synth
> Waldorf  rack
> Yamaha FS1r
> Lexicon MPX1 fx x2
> Lexicon PCM80
>
> Emagic Unitor 8 for MacBook and main rig has another Unitor 8 running in
> patch mode.
>
> Hope to speak soon
>
> thanks!
>
> best
>
> Henry Frampton
>
>
>>---- Original Message ----
>>From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
>>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>>Sent: Sat, Feb 9, 2013, 7:04 PM
>>Subject: Re: scoring and notation software
>>
>>On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:56 PM, RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com> 
>>wrote:
>>> I do have Logic and Ableton 9
>>
>>
>>When I saw your post I checked Ableton's web site but Ableton 9 is
>>still not yet released, so I guess you mean Live 8? I was talking
>>about coming features of Live 9.
>>
>>Greetings from Sweden
>>
>>Per Boysen
>>www.perboysen.com
>>http://www.youtube.com/perboysen