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Re: Re: Live looping to Midi Clock solution sought!

Hi Rainer,

Thanks very much for your post!

I have a K5000r too !... just cant take on any more clobber on the road!
By the way have you ever had the screen on your 5000r disappear to then have to switch the unit on and off to have it reappear?!

Back to the case in point!...
To give you a clearer idea of what I am trying to achieve if I can kindly ask you to have a listen to "Goodbye To Sorrow"(track 15) on my shitty myspace site (soon to be replaced!) imagine I am playing this song live on stage and where the sax comes in (before it does on this recording of course) I wish to loop those bars in perfect timing and then have them repeat for the solo as long as I need to then return to the keys to finish the song: thats what I am trying to do! This may not be the best example re this particular song as the sax solo comes in traight away, but the principle is the same: I just want to be able to loop a few bars in perfect timing at any given time to then return to playing as seamlessly as possible. Obviously I would have to split the song up into different sections re the drum track. I do this in 2 different ways on the KRONOS depending on how many patch changes are needed to change textures throughout the song. I either have the whole drum track prerecorded as an audio file residing in Live triggered off at the beginning of the song by the first key struck or if it suits the songs arrangement and I dont need carrying drum fills from verses to chouses for example I often use a clocked delay over the drums so that it ties the different sections together when I patch change. The KRONOS has a neat trick that allows spill of all its effects and any samples playing to tail off on patch change. Unfortunately this feature does not apply to any drum sequences being played live or any of the KARMA arpeggiators: they both stop immediately the patch change kicks in as do any external synths of course but this is another problem is I have drum patterns and rhythmic things happening on the Korg Kronos and if I am going to loop a few bars to play to the punch in/out points need to be quantised to the Kronos midiclock. This afternoon I tried using Lives looper plug in but found that it would only follow the actual bars on Lives transport bar reading.
Hence when I trigger the Looper to record say in a bars time that bar follows the actual bar number displayed on the transport not a "bars length" according t the midi clock that Live is being slaved too. Live slaves to the Kronos clock OK(if hovering a little around the actual tempo being sent) - the problem is that I want the loop to capture strictly the 4 bars so that it picks out the drums cleanly of course. The other thing is that I am not running the KRONOS in sequencer mode but in combie. Midi Clock signal is still sent out and is actually continually running from the Kronos. You can see this in Live in the left hand corner where the EXT input flashes to indicate the tempo being received. I think tonight I will try it the other way round slaving KRONOS to Lives midi clock but really this may not work as after all its my hands that start everything off on the KRONOS re drum pattern triggering & KARMA arpeggiation etc.

---- Original Message ----
From: Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <moinsound@googlemail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 13, 2013, 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Live looping to Midi Clock solution sought!


as Per already said, that's some serious gear alert here!
In fact, there's some things I use, too (Waldorf Q, Yamaha FS1R, Korg Wavestation, Matrix-1000, Kawai K5000R).

I can't say that I completely understand everything you're trying to do here...you are playing a part on one synth (or on several ones, but no sequencer running), and then want a loop of what you just played to continue while you play the sax, and then switch back to your synth playing seamlessly...is that it?

The way I get it, you wouldn't need any specific looping things - Ableton Live in its basic functionality should be good:
have all the synths routed through live, either from your mixer's out, or via individual ins/tracks, and then those tracks routed to another track, which then is your "looping" track. Now set the monitor setting for that track to "auto", arm record on that track.

When you play your synths, you should be able to hear them just nice. Now while playing, record a clip in Live on that very track. End the recording, and voila, via the monitor "auto" setting, you will no longer hear the synths, but the tracks you just recorded. If you then stop the track, you will again hear your synths. Makes sense?


Am 13.02.2013 18:15, schrieb info@riversonicstudios.com:
Hi Per,

Thanks so much for getting back to me!

The KRONOS is my midiclock master at the moment as it drives the Waldorf Q, Pulse+ and the Andromedas midi clocks for syncing LFOs and sequencers/arps etc. However I will certainly read through your email to digest your info in greater reference tonight and ping you back real soon hopefully with some progress!

Yes! Logic is crap with midiclock! and in fact I have dropped it only recently using Ableton instead if only for live performance use! I will look at Ableton, Mobius and SooperLooper for a solution! I only tend to use Ableton for triggering long drum backing tracks or (at the moment pending a looping solution!) full instrumental middle 8 soloing sections that I trigger from one shot keyboard triggers when I want to solo on the sax.

I have managed to sort half my live set out and failing finding a solution immediately to the looping I can always play less intricate versions of some of my material for the giggs I have imminently !

However it is something I must overcome. The main thing is that for a keyboard player I need to be able to record the loop without having to think about it 
in terms of timing on stage, thats why the punch in/out and immediate playback has to be quantised to midi clock. I find the SoftStep has great functionallity but lacks the physical feel of something
 like the Behringer unit for example (F1010 is it?). I have 2 sustain, one switch and 2 EV5 volume pedals at my feet already and whenever 
I have to hit a pad on the SoftStep to kick out say an arpeggiator coming from the Waldorf Q, in the heat of a performance I have to look down to watch my footwork : unfortunately the SoftStep wasnt designed for keyboard players! Your instruction re the quantise by bar in Ableton for 
recording the loop makes easy sense. I think it will be the muting or the halting/resuming of the original sounds that may prove a little tricky to accomplish! I have had digital desks in the past and they all sound rubbish compared to analog. There are a few older analog racks that have midi muting on them- that may be a solution. However I think the best plan is to look at halting the background sound rather that trying to mute it while the loop is being played. 

I have actually only just moved with all my studio kit to Nimes and as my studio business is somewhat in the air at the moment (hoping to resurrect RIVERSONIC STUDIOS somewhere in the South Of France) I decided to go out on the road for the next year or so with my music. I have a big filmatic sound live: trouble is to get that sound one has to port a fair amount of hardware and then find a way to keep its sonic potential under a leash with only one pair of hands and feet!

Thanks again for your response, forgive me if mine has been slow but I am still settling in here and have yet to sort my home internet connection etc!