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What a bunch of horseshit. By this logic we must all consider Ned Steinberger a guy with a "Great Idea" and Gibson Guitars as our saviors for having the time and money to market the instruments after Ned tired of the whole thing. The Guitars say "KLEIN" on them Kim...not "German" the accolades from Frisell, Torn,Summers et al and the instruments they first encountered were conceived, designed and built by Steve...not Lorenzo. Comparing a Klein electric--fantastic guitars that they are ( I own 3) ,whether built by Lorenzo or Steve- to one of the Klein acoustics is a joke. I (and I'm sure you) have been in the Klein factory (in Sonoma where it all started) and you know as well as I that building a Klein electric is largely a matter of finding the best wood and running it through several stages of numerically controlled routers and cutting machines...fine sanding the bodies and (most importantly as far as true artisan level work is concerned) building one INCREDIBLE neck and fingerboard (Lorenzos necks are truly the best) and bolting it on...the wiring and components are put in by another employee...and ALL the paint and finish work (at least when I was there) is jobbed out...sometimes with mixed results which end up delaying delivery...because Lorenzo will not let a bad pice get to delivery stage. In the middle of the factory there was something truly special going on...this is where Steve builds his acoustics...every piece fashioned by hand...all the inlay...the bending of the woods..shaving the braces...tapping the top woods to get it perfect in a painstaking process taking MONTHS to complete just one instrument ... Jealous? As much as I like Lorenzo and as much as I admire his talent, I'd have to say he'd give his left nut to have the gift of craft and innovation that Steve Klein has. So...by laying all these accolades on Lorenzo (all of which I agree with...he is a SUPER nice guy) HONESTY INTEGRITY blah blah blah...and following that with a paragraph of how Steve was just an Idea man...seems to indicate to me that you hold Klein responsible for the post from Ed...(I've met Ed in the store on Broadway downtown Sonoma...he's a sales clerk for Christ sake..not a builder) when in fact it could be simply a matter of a customer...ME for instance...stopping by the Klein shop and casually mentioning to Ed... "hey..Klein guitars get as lot of notice on the Loopers delight list...perhaps you should stay in touch..your web page could use some sprucing up too" When I last visited Lorenzo (last fall), he asked me what I did for a living...thinking maybe we could barter some time for his work as I was having a hard time justifying spending almost 3 grand on a guitar...alas...I am a lowly police/fire dispatcher which obviously didnt fill his needs...but, I had a freind with me who was also intereested in a Klein...and he is a first rate web author and offered to create a better website for Klein ELECTRIC guitars...L.G. passed and I dare say if he hadnt his back order list would be even longer today. Personally I think you over- reacted to what is indeed an innocuos little thing. If there is evidence you havent brought forward regarding Steve being underhanded in his dealings and "using" the loopers forum to somehow further his cause and/or hurt Lorenzo's, I'd certainly like to hear it...until then I think you have done Mr. Klein a disservice. Steve's a GREAT guy...Lorenzo is a GREAT guy...they both build fine guitars... I hope someday to own a Klein acoustic and sooner hope to own another Klein Electric ( a baritone with Novax neck) Thanks all for your further indulgence, Roland Eberle Kim Flint (by way of Kim Flint ) wrote: > ok, I'll gonna break my solemn oath to not discuss guitars on the list. > Just this once, promise, but it seems kinda important, at least to me. >All > you Klein Electric Guitar fans, guitar fans, and general fans of musical > instrument industry soap operas, you might be interested. > > So this just bugs the livin' shit out of me: > > >Kim, a customer said we should keep in touch. Ed @ kleinguitars.com. > >Check out our website. > > Now it seems like a pretty innocuous little thing, right? > > Well, not exactly. It's a piece of dishonesty and deception that reaches > heights rarely attained even in the music industry. It just rankles me, > that's what it does. > > This "kleinguitars.com" and the website that goes with it, is NOT the >same > company that makes the extraordinary Klein Electric Guitars played by > people like David Torn, Henry Kaiser, Bill Frisell, Mick Goodrick, Andy > Summers, etc, and list members here like Marshall, Jon and Kingsley >Durant, > and myself. (and dt, too, of course.) > > Did you get that? It's NOT the same company. > > But if you look at this website, it sure does look like the same company! > They've got a whole page on Klein Electrics, they've got logos and photos > of endorsers, they've got specs, they've got ordering info, and they've >got > an address in Sonoma, CA, formerly the home of Klein Electric Guitars. >Yet > this website, and the company that put it up, is NOT KLEIN ELECTRIC > GUITARS!! So what's the deal? > > The real Klein Electric Guitars is owned by Lorenzo German, one of the > finest humans on this here planet. He produces one of the finest > instruments you are ever likely to touch in your entire life. His >operation > is an excercise in perfection; everything that comes out of his shop, > produced by his hands, is a masterpiece. Buying one of his guitars was >one > of the most pleasurable experiences I've had in my life, of any sort. My > guitar is a beautiful work of art, sounds and plays like a dream. I can't > say enough. Lorenzo is a great fellow. Honest, full of integrity, fun to > hang out with, with a pride in his work that's hard to beat. > > The Klein Electric was originally designed by Steve Klein. A great idea, > make no mistake. But Steve never got very far with it. Poor business >sense, > weird customer service attitudes, inconsistent quality, a half-baked >idea, > whatever, by 1995 he had run his business into the ground and decided to > throw the electric business away and just focus on his acoustic guitars. > Lorenzo was one of his employees at the time, and offered to buy Klein > Electric Guitars from Steve. So they worked out a deal, signed contracts, > the whole bit. Lorenzo got Klein Electric Guitars, Steve kept Klein > Acoustic Guitars. > > Lorenzo took Klein Electric guitars and ran with it. He applied his > perfectionism, his own innovations, and his expert craftsmanship to turn >a > good idea into a phenomenal guitar. He applied his good sense and people > skills to produce a good business. He's worked his ass off for it. The > result? Some success! Klein Electric Guitars has been growing and selling > more and more instruments. All that Lorenzo and his employees can manage >to > make. Steve on the other hand, remains mired in his own muck. > > Can you say jealousy? Hardly anyone cares about Steve's acoustics. > Everyone's raving about Lorenzo's electrics. > > Steve began to freak out, and has been giving Lorenzo a really hard time. > He had been renting his barn to Lorenzo to run Klein Electric, and >recently > kicked Lorenzo out for no reason. Lorenzo was tired of being there >anyway, > and wanted to leave, but moving a guitar manufacturing operation on a > shoestring budget and little notice is tough. Lorenzo lost all his > employees because he had to move too far away. Then Steve began > intercepting all of the mail arriving for Klein Electric Guitars at his > barn. Customer requests somehow never get forwarded on to Lorenzo's new > address, and he's losing business. And now, Steve has put up this website > claiming that he is Klein Electric Guitars, and that is complete >bullshit! > Legally, ethically, morally, he *does not* have that right. Lorenzo does, > and he has the blisters and sweat and loyal customers to prove it. > > So if you care about this at all, do something! Lorenzo and Klein >Electric > Guitars need your help. Despite the world's past transgressions, it does > not deserve to lose this gem. Tell people that the real Klein Electric > Guitars is located at 1207 Marina Circle, Discovery Bay, CA, USA. The >real > phone number is 925-516-9338. > > And give Lorenzo a call and let him know you care and you support him. He > could use it. Maybe even order a guitar while you're at it. Believe me, >you > won't regret it! > > thanks for the indulgence, > > kim > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint | Looper's Delight > kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html > http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com