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If you tell a brass player to "blow his instrument" and then take the instrument away, what you will hear is "melodic sound" generated by the lips vibrating in the stream of air. If you add the instrument, the sound is louder and more focused on a single frequency and sounds what most people will call "nicer", but this is actually well-consistent with the definition of an "effect" you gave... Mind you, I chose the trombone (or any brass instrument) here for a reason - your "the instrument does generate sound" point would be valid for about any other instrument I can think of at the moment (except for blowing a comb or singing onto a timpano or something to this effect)... Rainer Rainer Straschill Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs > actually, this doesn't make sense. > a brass instrument does generate sound. > though the lip is part of the equation, the instrument doesn't just > amplify lip buzz... > > > there will always be a distinction blur between effect and instrument. > is a wah pedal an effect? > how about the guitar amp? > good luck being consistent on the hairy edge... > > "Nothing is intrinsically good or evil, but its usage may > make it so." - St. Thomas Aquinas > > > >