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At 12:13 PM 9/27/2002, ARTHUR LEE MUSIC wrote: >They are close but they are not exact. It'll be a persussion part that's >just a groove so if it were only to take half of the phrase for the last >one >it would be fine but not for the entire song so I guess Hans' first method >wouldn't work sure it works, you just have to use whatever common denominator makes sense. (Also, where Hans is saying "multiply", you probably really want "insert", although there are similar techniques using record-multiply.) The idea is that instead of recording your initial loop as one cycle, you break it up into several cycles as you record it. This can be done seamlessly using the Record-Insert technique. You tap Record at the beginning as you normally would. Then tap Insert at the point you want to be your rhythmic or cycle base, then tap Insert again at the end of the part you are recording. You will now have a loop that consists of several cycles, but sounds like a seamless loop of what you just played. If recording loops with the cycle length equal to the bar length doesn't work (because your bars are not equal in length), then record with the cycles equal to one beat, or even one eighth note. As Matthias noted, you do this be starting the loop with a tap of record, then tapping Insert at whatever point you want to represent a cycle. (one bar, one beat, one eighth note, etc.) Then it is easier to multiply this loop to the fractions you want. This is also the way to easily set midi clock tempos based on shorter fragments when you are recording a long phrase. If your initial loop is going to be 32 bars long, you might prefer to have the midi clock defined from one bar at the beginning rather than after you played the whole 32 bar section. Using Record-Insert or Record-Multiply techniques makes this a lot easier to accomplish in real-time. >and the second one is too much to deal with when I don't >really know how many bars they song really is when I start the loop. Hans' second method doesn't require you to know anything about the eventual length of the song. That's the whole point in fact, and the beauty of the idea. That method is just giving you quantizing points in the middle of the cycles, which you can setup with the 8ths/cycle parameter and the Quantize=8ths feature of LoopIV. Then you can do an "Unrounded Multiply", but with the new loop length quantized to the next beat. (or whatever subdivision of the loop you want to set up.) Unrounded Multiply is the technique that lets you multiply a loop and cut it off at any point, instead of automatically rounding off to the next cycle. In this way if you have a 2 second loop, you can multiply it to 9 seconds, or 1.7 seconds, or 19 seconds, or wherever you want. You do this by tapping Multiply to begin the Multiply, and then instead of ending with Multiply again, you tap Record at the point you want to be the end, and it immediately begins looping from there. The loop will then consist of complete repetitions of the original with a fraction of it filling whatever space is at the end before it all repeats again. The technique Hans is talking about adds quantization to this, so when you tap Record to end the multiply, the EDP waits to the next quantize point to actually execute it. If you've set up the quantizing to match the beat, you can easily maintain a rhythmic groove. Your new loop will consist of an integer number of beats, even though it doesn't consist of an integer number of cycles. These are some of the various Echoplex techniques that let you modify the rhythm of loops on the fly to match changing grooves, rhythmic patterns, and tempos. >I used the number 19 as a random number for getting my point across. >I run into this problem when I loop a long Dylan song that has odd >measures. >I know I'm taking a chance when I do it cuz I'm doing it on the fly but it >would be nice if it would just quantize itself. Well, as noted above, it can. Another function in LoopIV that may be interesting here is the MultiIncrease feature. This lets you pre-tap the final number of cycles you will get when doing a multiply or insert. Once the Multiply has begun, you can repeatedly tap multiply to set the final number of cycles it will go to. The display shows how many you are doing. So if your cycle is equal to one bar and you want to multiply to 19, you would quickly tap the Multiply until it shows 19 cycles, and then go on playing. It will end automatically after the 19th one, and you don't have to worry about it. This is really nice when doing a big multiply, since it can be easy to forget about it while you play and not end in the right place. >Thanks for pointing this Matthias. Any other ideas? Maybe this could be a >change for the next software edition. I guess I don't see the need. It seems to me the current software does everything you want! Practice the techniques explained here and you will get it. kim Hans said: > >Arthur, > > > >I'll assume that you're not syncing to a drum machine, since in that > >case what you want to do would be automatic with Loop4. > > > >One simple way, which would work with any version of the Loop software, > >would be to end Record with Multiply after the first bar, and then to > >close the loop with Multiply (Roundmode=ON) at the end of the second > >bar. This will create the loop as two cycles. Then just multiply it > >out to 19. This should also work if you're synced to a drum machine but > >using Loop3. > > > >In Loop4, you could set 8ths/Cycle to 2 with Quantize=8ths, record it as > >a two-bar cycle, and then when you multiply it out end Multiply with > >Record during the 19th cycle (the cycle count will read 9). This will > >redefine the loop as a single cycle, so you would then have to change > >8ths/cycle to 19 to be able to quantize to the end of each bar. I'd > >probably go with the first method. > > > > > >Happy Camping, > > > >-Hans > > > > > >P.S. Thanks Andre :) > > > > > >> Does anyone know if there is a way to have the Multiply function > >> quantize to odd bar multiples? > >> E.G. Say you have a 2 bar drum loop and you use the multiply function > >> for a song that is, say, 19 bars long. Is there a way you can get the > >> Multiply to > >> quantize the extra bar (since it's not a multiple of 2) so you don't > >> have a bar of silence until the next multiple of 2 cycles around? > >> > >> I would be one happy camper if it could pull that off! > >> > >> -Arthur Lee ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@loopers-delight.com | http://www.loopers-delight.com