Re: keeping loops interesting

["Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>]

I have to say I was really taken aback when I first heard the phrase 
"fractal music". My first inclination was that is was a trendy "catch 
phrase" misapplication of concept as it originated in visual fields, only 
because I was construing a true fractal pattern as one that is holographic 
(refer to "The Holographic Universe" and the article "The Source of 
Fractals")....but I learned that this is an extreme application of the 
concept and now fractals have blossomed into something not so rigidly in 
adherence to the holographic plate example, where not only does the shape 
appear similar at all levels of magnification, but appears "exact".   And 
I 
confirmed this with the entry on fractals at Wikipedia: Fractals, below. 
We 
are talking similar and not exact. And we are introducing a degree of 
subjectivity as well, in perception.
"In colloquial usage, a fractal is a shape that is recursively constructed 
or self-similar, that is, a shape that appears similar at all scales of 
magnification and is therefore often referred to as "infinitely complex." 
Mathematicians avoid giving the strict definition and prefer to call 
'fractal a geometric object that usually

  a.. has fine structure at each scale and can not be easily described in 
traditional Euclidean geometry language.
  b.. is self-similar (at least approximatively or stochastically)
  c.. has Hausdorff dimension greater than its topological dimension
  d.. has a simple and recursive definition
  e.. has natural appearance."
But I am still at loss how this applies to music. Are folks saying that 
you 
create a piece of music where the pattern as a whole can be found repeated 
in a similar way inside that overall pattern?  I need a more concrete 
example of this. Rhythmically, perhaps, I can understand this better, but 
not actual notation. I'm trying to imagine a melodic pattern that repeats 
within itself, or even in a similar fashion....nothing is comeing to mind, 
but I'm a bit tired right now.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony K" <bigtony@softhome.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: keeping loops interesting


>>> My ears always perk up when someone mentions Fractals (or any other 
>>> related
>>> math stuff.) Could you elaborate a bit on this?  Fractal in what way?
>>
>> If you have a tap delay with 8 taps and 8 possibilities to feedback (as 
>I 
>> do), you can easily create fractal like rythmic structures by 
>controlling 
>> the feedbacks. For example, imagine a 4 bar delay, if you create a 
>> feedback at the end of the bar, it will repeat 4 bars as a loop... but 
>if 
>> you now create a feedback which is one 8th shorter, you will get a 
>> syncopic more complex rythmical structure. Now play with different ways 
>> of feeding back at different times... It will result in fractal like 
>> complex textures...
>
> Ah, I get it.  Interesting idea.   It'd be interesting to hear what 
> happens if you have 8 feedback loops, each one 1/8th shorter.  Or if you 
> could have the feedback loop shorten by 1/8th each time til it was 0, 
>then 
> increase back to the full feedback.. and around and around...
>
>
>> Graphical fractals are mostly feedback structures to create complexity 
>> out of very simple basic rules...
>
> Yeah, like the Mandlebrot set.  I spent a lot of computer lab time 
>writing 
> and running those.  Good fun.
>
> Tony
>