Re: Music and performance (WAS: Why does mainstream seem more like,downstream these days?)

[Fabio_A <eterogenus@gmail.com>]

2011/2/16 Louie Angulo <louie.angulo@googlemail.com>

I suppose what i dislike about the whole classical trained mentality
is the conservative hierarchy and disqualification of other types of
music genres.

You're right, Louis. Same for me, but I was lucky enough to get a piano teatcher with wide view about music.

Some years after I started taking lessons with her (1986 or so) she asked me to bring her to a concert that I would choose.

Well...I brought her to a gig of ....."Paco De Lucia Sextet": at the end she asked me if I could make a cassette of that music.

That night changed our relationship "teatcher-pupil"

From that moment, she often asked me to go and listen some of the music I liked at that time, or to record cassette for her and even playing my own rudimental piano composition for her.

So I was lucky enough to get the discipline and knowledge of classical music without loosing attention to "outer" music.

 

It reminds me of a quotation from Mr. Andres Segovia:

"That gentleman, Paco de Lucía, people think that just because he's
got the facility to do some of those simple things he does, that he's
a genius... any one of the young fellows coming up in the guitar
competitions I attend has a fabulous technique, but all that 'pluck,
pluck, pluck', that's not technique".

Simple things? pluck, pluck', that's not technique" how arrogant!!

...and crazy !

Just listen to the "Concierto de Aranjuez" executed by Segovia and that one from Paco and then tell me who the genius is ! (with no offense for Segovia, who is a BIG !)

What I ever loved in Paco playing is that - despite the speed of his playing - e a c h single note is played for what it means in the musical context. Hid dynamic are really great IMO.

 

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Nadia Salom <nadia.salom@gmx.de> wrote:
>  I think it would be sad if music wasnt being "written" just because it is
> performative... and the word performative can still include "composition" in
> it's make up... improvisation is not a prerequisite for the performative
> act... also the performative moment can be seen from a distant viewpoint...
> for example a particular time and culture....  so the use of language and
> composition plays into the music...  I am using the word performance from a
> linguistic sense so probably I am getting confusing......
>
> ... maybe our minds are just not moving fast enough to compose and perform
> at the same time...not yet anyways... haha...
>
> but what i meant is that I always get sad when I think about a really good
> piece of music dying away from our awareness... but that thought is based on
> a mentality that songs and compositions are "results" of a long process...
> this mentality is coming from a consumer mentality... meaning eventually the
> songs are going to be out of date and eaten up or thrown away... but if they
> are seen as the process the songs always continue on... and the author is
> more or less unimportant.
>
> if making music as well as listening to music is seen as a process... like
> peeling of skin... musician can rid themselves of the industry... does
> anyone get this??
>
> Am 15.02.11 14:59, schrieb Fabio_A:
>
> 2011/2/15 Nadia Salom <nadia.salom@gmx.de>
>>
>> I see making music and listening to music more like a way to develop a
>> process... like the process of processing. so each song out there is
>> happening in a performative moment in time which reflects that moment and
>> the present situation of the musician, therefore I dont see any good and bad
>> in music, i just see a social phenomena... that's why sometimes I am
>> fascinating with music that is more mainstream... or kitsch... in the end I
>> dont there is such thing as kitsch...
>
>
> After all thiat interesting discussion about maistream and downstream,
> Nadia's post
> made me think that various members on this list seem to have the same
> approach as Nadia, where music is "a performative moment in time..." and
> that leads me to think about the "live", improvisative, performing side of
> music which seems very common nowdays.
>
> Sure looping is a great tool in that department, being the "here and
> now" the most perceivable effect of "looped music" (a "genre" that doesn't
> exist, IMO), so I can see why lot of people on this list care about that
> side of music.
>
> The fact is that..... in almost in evey corner, I can see musicians
> celebrating the improvisational and/or performative side of their music.
> So, it sound to me like that aspect is becoming in some way "mainstream" for
> today's musicians and - even worse - sometimes it alludes to the unsayed
> tought: "hey, I don't play written music: that's just so "old": I play "new"
> music, I'm exploring new fields, so I need to improvise".
>
> Which is fine for me, but is music just that and nothing else ?
> Does music still live off of a performative environment ?
> Is it still alive even when "written" music is performed ?
> Does really Music need a performative act to work out well ?
> Is the performative/improvvisational side of music getting more and more
> "mainstraim" ?
>
> ...just toughts
>
> -fabio
> www.eterogeneo.com
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I dont care much for what Adorno said about popular music... or the way
>> "serious" music is seen in a heirarchy.... that is so nonsense to me.
>
>
> Same for me, here !
>
>>
>> I liked reading this thread and seeing how the members of the listserver
>> discuss this phenomena. If it is true that through the internet the word
>> mainstream is losing more and more importance, then it must mean that the
>> process of making music nowadays is becoming more and more a performative
>> process.......
>>
>>
>> Am 14.02.11 22:34, schrieb Matt Stevens:
>>
>> I don't care what they call it as long as they listen.
>> Matt Stevens
>> www.mattstevensguitar.com
>> mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14 Feb 2011, at 19:42, mark francombe wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 7:13 PM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Buzap Buzap wrote:
>>
>> I took it to mean that it's all retro.
>>
>> Fair comment?
>>
>> God.. I didnt get that at ALL.. I just thought he meant its all crap!
>> Wow, I cant agree that its ALL retro no no no!!! But of course the
>> last 25 years sampling has by its nature resulted in a lot of
>> appropriated music... just cool in my book... hardly representative of
>> all music though!
>> Im sorry I just dont see that the genres have become erased... Im
>> terribly afraid that its just that we dont know what they are anymore!
>> It might be true that the kids are less genre specific, as in
>> sub-cultures.. not many NEW sub cultures around as far as I can see...
>>  here the kids is either Rich Kids or Hip Hop... ok and the occasional
>> emo kid (there always been one).
>> As for a genre-less world being a better world.. well .. maybe, in a
>> philosophical, religious and political sense... but when I get a night
>> out to go and see a band, I sure as HELL do NOT want to waste my
>> evening by accidentally going to a Country and Western Ho Down...
>> If its Metal... I want them to put METAL in a big metallic font,
>> preferably with barbed wire on it...
>> If its 4 hours of Gregorian chanting, I want the poster to say 4 hours
>> of Gregorian chanting, so I can think about it.
>> If I see a poster which says BILLS GOOD MUSIC... 5$ entry Girls
>> Free... I might walk past... If it says Bill Walkers Live Looping,
>> Glitchy, ambient, lapsteel.. 55$ Smart Dress Only... Im gonna run, get
>> me best togs on and sprint downtown... I might even comb my hair
>> Genres help... doesnt mean you have to stick to one...
>> M
>> --
>> mark francombe
>> www.markfrancombe.com
>> www.ordoabkhao.com
>> twitter @markfrancombe
>> http://vimeo.com/user825094
>> http://www.looop.no
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://www.nirmala07.net
>
>
> --
>
> http://www.nirmala07.net