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Ok dammit: This certainly all makes more sense now, even if I didn't particularly enjoy it. Kevin's posting about "Where's the GOO?!" really gets it for me—I just wanted to hang with the topic and find the GOO! (Not hide behind my disto!) Hell, Socratic-ly arguing about which GOO would have been less tangential and more satisfying. I'll try to use Rick's useful information as a guide. Damned philosophy classes! They DO change your perspective. Sorry for the disturbance. I had no idea that's where the term "Gadfly" came from Kris. Damned S-method does get on my nerves dude. Sorry. *********** Understood, man. Hey, there is a reason why Socrates was put to death by drinking hemlock :) You can only piss off the status quo for so long without it coming back to bight you on the ass. Sidenote for Optional Reading: For me, my bachelor's degree in philosophy changed my life permanently, sometimes for the good, sometimes for worse. I basically took a vow to myself that I would always question, always search for answers, and never be satisfied with anything that couldn't withstand the test of reason. And so logic, rhetoric, and an understanding of logical fallacies are my working tools. And it really isn't personal. This is a peculiar thing about philosophy majors....they can engage in very heated debate, which makes outsiders feel very uncomfortable and think they are fighting personally, but then after the debate, they laugh and go off and have a beer together. It is all just a matter of distancing oneself from the person, and focusing only on the logic of the subject matter, which is the only way to tackle the problems without getting caught up in emotion and other biases that can effect the outcome negatively, generate inconsistencies, etc. And of course, this is only an ideal. We all serve from the ideal in imperfection. Kris